Internationally Bred

How many breeds of bird dogs do we need, if each breed has several varieties?

Suppose we use the pdkc method of grouping field bred bird dogs? What would we have?

BIRD DOGS:
1) Curly water dogs
2) Spaniels or Rushers
3) Pointing dogs
4) Retrievers
5) Bird Tollers

You can change the breed names, a rose by any other name is still a rose.

Why the Curly Water Dogs in their own breed? Why not put the Curly Coated Retriever in with the other Retrievers? Ditto, the Curly Spaniel types?

Because they are so rare in the US they would be swamped with straight coat genes if they were out-crossed to any dog except another curly coat.

Also, because the genes are NOT simple Mendelian inherited genes, look what happens when you cross a poodle with a Labrador - the puppies aren't truly curly or flat - not good to keeping out water.

How do you know which breed to put you bird dog into? You take it out into the field, if it can't hunt in a useful manner, or if it's coat is a joke in the field - it ain't a bird dog, no matter what was written on the receipt you got when you bought the dog.

Bird dogging is a profession, best done by dogs whose ancestor's were bred to naturally do the job - but it is still a profession, not a breed.

A Labrador Retriever who can't hardly swim isn't a retriever. A pointer who takes off and runs in a straight line for 3 miles before he looks around, isn't a useful bird dog. Sorry.

A Toller who chases birds away instead of luring them in might as well be a house cat.

Pet 'bird dogs' and show 'bird dogs' have their place, but it is NOT in with field bred bird dogs.

I believe that it is better for a person who is going to be selling the puppies to hunters, to cross an his field bred English setter with a field bred English pointer than with show bred English Setter.

I find no reason the have more than these 5 division of bird dogs - the are based on function, not which country the dogs came from.

But, of course, nobody would have to cross different varieties.

If you have Irish setters that hunt, and you don't want to cross them with English setters that hunt, you don't have to. But if someone else feels that this cross is what their line of dogs need, then, why not?

Retrieverman

Retrieverman (Golden Retriever blogger), said the horse has left the barn? Oh yeah, several horses have left their barns!

See, if you really want to get into splitting, most breeds haven't spit into TWO camps, they have already split into several camps.

It is just that some of the camps are smaller camps, but they have their ardent followers too.

There are bird dog people who have split into:
1) Show dogs
2) Pets
3) Guide dogs
4) Field Trail Competition dogs
5) Duck Retrievers
6) Upland Bird dogs

And I would be surprised to find a person or two who selects dogs to breed bird based on sledding, not shedding too much, not barking much, being a good watch dogs, square dancing talent, or whatever.

Admittedly, lone breeders aren't a camp, but I would guess that Golden Retrievers are at least spit 4 ways: show, pet, field competition, and lone hunters who choose based on things a bit different than fields trails.

5 ways if guide dogs have their own gene pool.

I don't know of any study or site that has gathered up info on how many separate gene pools Golden Retrievers in the US are split into.

If you bred Golden Retriever to guide blind people, and your carefully crafted line of Golden Retrievers got too inbred, which do you think would be the best out-cross:

a) field or show Goldies,
b) Labrador Retrievers that have been bred for generation to be good guide dogs,
c) German Shepherds Dogs that have been carefully bred for many generation to produce good guide dog puppies?